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Post by Jo Smith on Nov 24, 2008 21:16:40 GMT -5
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When the word said all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God, it is speaking of BEFORE we came to salvation. When it says there is none good, no not one, he is quoting O.T. Scripture; where men were under the law; BEFORE Jesus came and freed us.
When John said if we say we have no sin, we lie and deceive ourselves, he means if we say we have no sin before we come to Jesus and therefore have no need of his cleansing.
If we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from ALL EVIL. Now, if he cleansed us from all sin, are we not clean? Is there still sin in us? If so, he did not cleanse us from all sin. If we are clean for a minute, can we be clean for two minutes? How about an hour? Then how about one day? See, where this foolishness can go?
The Word teaches that when Jesus cleanses us, we are clean from then on. The only thing which will separate us from Him is WILLFULL turning our back on Jesus and going back to sin. That is sin unto death - eternal death. There is no forgiveness for this; for there remaineth no MORE sacrifice for sin. Jesus only died ONCE; HE ONLY CLEANSES US ONCE. That is sufficient. We are NO LONGER SINNERS. WE ARE CHILDREN OF GOD.
We never even considered that we had any righteousness apart from His righteousness. But, if he gave us his righteousness, how say ye that we are still sinners?
Romans 7 is speaking of man-kind under the law. There was never any true cleansing under the law; for the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin. But, if you put Christians in the same catagory as them = we still have sin---then you say the blood of Jesus is no more powerful than that of sheep.
The Word of God, no where, teaches that Christians sin every day; or regularly. If one does, they do not have the Holy Ghost. That is the real problem; most people have never gone on to receive the Holy Ghost; they stopped with a 'believing only experience"/
(I am too tired to type)---
You must learn to rightly divide the Word. Some of it is to people under the law; other is to those of us under grace. Some of it is about O.T. people; some of it about N.T. people. It is not the same with us.
Romans 8 is about people in Christ; Romans 7 is about people under the law.
There is therefore NOW no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.
Romans 7 shows that we must be dead to the law BEFORE we can be married to Christ. The law (our first 'husband') must be dead before we can be married to Jesus. If we try to marry Jesus while we are still under the law = our first husband---then we commit ADULTRY.
Jesus does not commit adultry. One must be divorced from the law in order to be married to Jesus. Jesus will not marry one while they are still clinging to the law; for that would be adultry.
So, the law must be dead; we must be dead to the law; or we cannot be bride to Jesus.
Jesus' bride is not in sin. She is clean; dressed in white = righteousness. Jesus is coming back for a church = bride= without spot, wrinkle, or blemish. Better get rid of those sins if you want to be his bride.
We will be leaving Fri. Morning; real early. I ask all of you to pray for us to have a safe trip. I will miss you all very much. Keep up the good work while we are gone. Make this a very good board; glorifying Jesus.
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Post by Jo Smith on Nov 24, 2008 21:17:21 GMT -5
From: joie Sent: 12/11/2001 10:25 PM
I can't believe what I am reading down through here!!!! Where is the world did all of you get such lying doctrine?
You sound like babblying babies saying gogogogog!!!
I will start with you Rod ( to those of you who do not know, the one calling himself J.C. is Rod., a roman catholic. ) I refuse to call him by his mockery of a pen name. I know him from another board as Rod.
Now, I am telling you Rod, for the last time---This is NOT a Catholic board!!! We are not going to put up with you coming in here and calling our precious Word of God a lie.
I would delete your ungodly message; except I want our members to see the kind of evil you are spuing out. Do NOT put such evil here any more!! If you want to teach your atheist evil against the Word of God, go do it on your own board. I am asking my managers to delete any more of this kind of evil. I will not put up with you calling God's word a lie here any more.
. If we no longer sinned we would have our own righteousness apart from Jesus'. It is that unrighteous righteousness that we must put off for it is nothing but pride. we learn that we are not righteous of ourselves and nothing we do is righteous except excepting the righteousness of Jesus as our righteousness. Now Jesus righteousness is and at the same time is not our righteousness.
Auth. the above is your statement. I find it hard to believe any intelligent person, much less a claimer of salvation, could make such an ungodly statement!! I tell you, I find this statement just as offensive to Jesus as Rod's mess!!!
Look at what you are saying.....If we no longer sinned, we would have our own righteousness apart from Jesus'. In other words, you are saying we have to sin to have Jesus' righteousness? Now, I ask you, just as you asked Rod----GIVE ME SCRIPTURE FOR SUCH AN UNGODLY STATEMENT!!! You are blaspheming.
You are saying anyone who doesn't go around sinning, is self-righteousness??? Yet the one who sins regularlly is of Jesus? You either need to repent of such evil teaching or you need to pray for God to enlighten your eyes to Spiritual things. You are saying that for one to live Holy is pride??? My God!!! Deliver us from such evil teachings. Brother, I believe you are sincerely deceived by false shepherds. I don't believe you are doing this in evil as Rod is. He is not deceived; he is catholic.
John was speaking to 'us' as humans. John was certainlly NOT a sinner; neither was PAUL.
I challange you to give me a Scripture saying there are saved sinners. It is not Scriptual. If one is a sinner, they do not belong to Christ. A sinner is NOT a Christian; and a Christian is NOT a sinner. If so, then what is the point of coming to Jesus? Why, if you are just as much a sinner after coming to Jesus as before? It is doctrine of hell.
Job 1:1---There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was PERFECT AND UPRIGHT, and one that feared God, and ESCHEWED (hated) evil.
11Peter 2:7---And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
v8---(For that RIGHTEOUS man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his RIGHTEOUS soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
v9---The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.
Now, there is two wittnesses, even in the O.T. of RIGHTEOUS, PERFECT MEN. Are you going to call God's Word a lie, like Rod does?
You are saying that after Jesus cleanses us from ALL OUR SINS, we are still sinners? My, My. You need to seek for the Holy Ghost. If you were being taught by Him and brought to all truth, you would not believe such lies.
1John 3:3---And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as HE IS PURE.
v5---And ye know that he was manifested to TAKE AWAY OUR SINS; and in him is no sin.
v6--Whosoever abideth in him sinneth NOT; whosoever sinneth hath NOT SEEN HIM NEITHER KNOWN HIM.
v7---Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth rightheousness is righteous EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS.
v8--He that committeth sin is of the DEVIL; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
v9--Whosoever is born of God doth NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remaineth in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
v10---IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST, AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL; whosoever doeth NOT righteousness is NOT OF GOD, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Now, he said if one does righteousness, he is righteous as Jesus is righteous. He said if one does not righteousness, he is NOT of God, there fore if one is of God, he will do righteousness; and if he does righteousness, he is righteous as Jesus is righteous.
Now, either accept this: or call it a lie as Rod does. Either you are NOT born of God; or you are righteous. Which. If you are born of God, you do not commit sin; so said the above Scripture.
Jo
p.s. Sin---singular---does refer to unbelief in Jesus----for Jesus said If I had not come and spoken to them, they had not had SIN.
The Holy Ghost will convince the world of SIN--- because they believe not on Jesus after he came and showed them the way of grace - = truth.
But, there are sins---plual---these are the fleshly sins one does. This is not part of the sin which will cut you off from him forever. That thing of SIN= denying him after having known him = is the sin unto death= unforgivable.
The fleshly sins are forgivable ==even if a Christian does fall away and do some. But, that person has to come BACK AND REPENT = MEANING GIVE THOSE SINS UP AND QUIT DOING THEM.
You can not have victory in Jesus doing sin.
Jo
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Post by Jo Smith on Nov 24, 2008 21:18:49 GMT -5
From: joie Sent: 12/13/2001 10:36 PM
Auth,
If I misunderstood your post I appologize. It sounds to me as if you are saying that even AFTER we have been cleansed by Jesus, that we are still sinners. That is the part I am disputing.
I have never implied that we can be righteous without Jesus' righteousness; but it sounds to me as if you and most other people, say that even then we are still sinners and unrighteous.
John only included himself, because he is speaking of man-kind before they came to Jesus. All man-kind have sinned and need the savour. But, after we have the savour, we are not sinners; we are Christians. David was not born again; born again did not exist at that time. Also, he repented of his sin and did not continue to do those things.
No O.T. people had been baptized into the body of Chirst: it was not available. There is a vast difference. You seem to be saying that Jesus cannot make us Holy.
This doctrine of only needing to 'believe' to be 'saved' and then still live in sins; and still be on the way to Heaven---is the greatest deception of all times and will undoubtly lead more souls into hell than any other avenue.
This will be my last post. We are to leave in the morning. I will be unpluging my computer tonight. So, I will not be able to continue this or any other discussion.
My brother-in-law is better. Thank the Lord for that.
We also now have another assistant manager. Beffers. I thank God for Beffers and the fact that he came back here to help manage. I feel very confident now, that the board will fare very well with all of our great managers. God bless all of you and all our members.
Please, all of you stay friends with each other. And please pray for us that we might have a safe journey.
If you disagree, just keep using the Word to say how you see it. don't get angry and delete any messages unless they are obsene. We want all the members to say how they believe and debate the issue. The true children of God will hear his voice and a stranger they will not follow; so the false teachings will not take away any true sheep.
Good by for now. I wish all you GOOD POSTING.
Jo
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Post by Jo Smith on Nov 24, 2008 21:20:03 GMT -5
From: joie Sent: 12/12/2001 6:57 PM
Well said, Tom. In this matter, you and I are in complete agreement.
Rod, you are in total deception. You really should study some of the horrid history of the catholic church. ( I do not wish to give it the honour of captilization).
God gave us His Word; not that evil church. They killed millions of Christians because they had the Word. They kept people in darkness just as long as they possibly could. They tortured millions of christians with in human crulity to get them to deny Jesus and the Word of God.
God kept His Word; not that evil church. We are His children; our faith rests in Him. That church has not one thing to do with this. They would kill all of us today if they just could.
They killed all those who worked to translate the Word into readable English and other languages. They wanted to keep the people in darkness and ignorance of the Word. That is how they kept them under their control.
That is why they did their services with their backs to the congregration and in Latin; so the people could get nothing out of it. I have tried before, many times to help you; but I know now you do not wish help.
I am only saying all this now for the sake of those others who read these messages.
I wish to say to all of you: if any of you wish to and have time to, please copy some of the good messages from here and paste them into other communities. We want to reach as many souls as we can with the truth. You may use any of mine that you would like to. All I ask is that you do not change them.
Some people who do not post here; indeed are not even members, read and print off these messages and give them to others by means of printed page or redone cassette tape.
These are all means by which you can do a work of ministry for Jesus.
If any of you know how to paste our URL into other communities links, please do so. I tried many times: but I never could get it to do.
I ask you all to pray for our trip. Also, I have a brother-in-law in the hospital who is very sick; near death. Please pray for him. We are not even sure if we should leave on our trip now.
Thank you for your prayers and all that you do for this community.
Jo
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Post by Jo Smith on Nov 24, 2008 21:20:31 GMT -5
From: nellie Sent: 12/18/2001 11:47 AM
Tom, I agree with your statements above. People think they are glorifying Jesus when they say they are still full of faults and sins AFTER Jesus has cleansed them from all sin. This does not glorify Jesus; instead, it belittles him. Oh, I am sure they do not realize this; they have been taught this so long in churches who had heirlings for pastors, that they think this is the only right way to 'think'.
But, if Jesus has cleansed us, and made us Holy, why do we say we are still sinners? Why say we are still full of faults and sins. Jesus said he had sanctified forever those whom he has cleansed. The word says God does not impute sin to us who are in salvation. If one finds themselves unable to 'quit' sinning, they are still in the condition of the old testament people, who did not have the blood of Jesus to wash away their sins.
If one is unable to stop sinning, they did not receive the baptism of the HOly Ghost. For by this baptism we are baptized into the BODY of Jesus: so this would be saying that SIN is in the BODY of Jesus. This cannot be.
You cannot be Holy and full of sin at the same time. You cannot have demons and the Holy Ghost at the same time. It is impossible. How can two walk together, except they be agreed? We cannot fellowship darkness and light; we cannot eat at the table of devils and the table of God. So, this shows sin and righteousness; demons and the Holy Ghost cannot inhabit the same body at the same time.
You are insulting Jesus, to say he has saved you , but you are still a sinner.
Nellie
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Post by Jo Smith on Nov 24, 2008 21:21:18 GMT -5
From: nellie Sent: 12/18/2001 11:53 AM
I just looked across the page and saw this verse. ( It is something how God teaches.) This verse confirms what I said in the above message; so I want to add this:
1Thes.5: 23--And the very God of peace sanctify you WHOLLY: and I pray God your WHOLE spirit and soul and body be preserved BLAMELESS unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, if this is NOT possible, (that we could be preserved blameless, our whole spirit, body, and soul,) why would he pray for this? This would be very misleading.
I pray the same for us all; you all, and me.
I want to go back to your starting verse: Romans 3: 10--keep reading the rest of those verses that follow: you will see --
1.none righteous
2.none seeking God
3.all out of the way
4.all unprofitable
5.none doing good,no not ONE
6.their throat an open grave
7.tongues using deceit
8.their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness
9.their feet swift to shed blood (kill)
10.Destruction and misery are in their ways
11.they know no peace
12.no fear of God before their eyes
v19--this is said to those under the law , in other words, those before Jesus came.
Please, all of you, go back and read this whole chapter; remember, you must rightly DIVIDE the Word. You cannot get truth, if you place all this sort of thing down here AFTER Calvary.
v23--all have SINNED= in the past. You cannot place this with the Spirit filled Christian.
Surely, you know that all the above things do NOT apply to Christians: blood washed, cleansed, Spirit filled Christians. Are you thinking that Paul, Peter, James, John and the other Christians were in the condition listed above? I do hope not so.
Please, bear with me: but I want to add this one more thing. I disagree that all the modern day 'versions' of the Bible is the truth. Modern men started 'tampering' with the word to add deceit to it.
Go back in history: you will find that when the men way back first started translating the Bible into English, Satan, through his servants, persecuted them; killed them. drove them away from home; did all kinds of evil to them. Why? Because they were truly led of God and were truly translating the truth for us. Satan hate the truth and fights if.
He did NOT fight these new versions; for they bring into the word, error and deception. If it had been a work of God, satan would have persecuted them as in the past.
The King James Translation is the only one in which you will find the truth, without bweing changed enough to destroy the real meaning.
If you will study the KJV, God will reveal the truth out of it. The letter only, without the revelation, is darkness. You must ask God to give you the spirit of revelation to open it up to you.
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