question of the cross

[Jo Smith]

From: AngelAzul (Original Message) Sent: 1/30/2002 12:26 PM
I am interested in learning more about the reason why many so-called Christians wear/display the cross/crucifix. Didn't Jesus die on a stake and not a cross? Also, doesn't the cross also have many pagan references? I have not researched much on the subject, and thought this would be a great place to come first.

AngelAzul

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My answer to her:

From: joie Sent: 1/30/2002 10:38 PM

AngleAzul,

The word 'stake' is NOT in the Scripture; not anywhere!!! I go only by what is written in the Word. Those who teach that Jesus died on a stake, changed the Word; for their own purposes. That group also said that the only place in the word, Acts 12--- where Easter is mentioned, they said this was a mistranslation; again , for their own purposes.

IF they had stayed with the written word, and waited for God to reveal things to them, instead of trying to make up their own doctrine for their own religion, then they might have come to know some real truth.

I totally agree that the cross is connected with idol, devil worship. The pagans had some cross worship thousands of year before Jesus came here.

BUT that is NOT reason to bring in a teaching which is NOT in the Word = that of Jesus dying on a 'stake'. This word is just not sacred to a Christian.

Paul spoke often of the cross of Jesus. BUT here is where you need to watch the true word: Gal. 3: 13---Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.

Every where else, it says cross. It really is not the issue. The issue is this: when one picks up things like the 'cross' and 'dotes' on it, this becomes an 'idol' to that person. We are NOT to 'cherish', love, honour, wear, glorify, sing of, worship, or anything else of this nature - the cross. FOR IF WE DO, THEN IT IS IDOLARTY.

We are only to love, cherish, glorify, and worship JESUS ----not a cross.

Years after Moses put up the brazen serpent on the pole, a Godly king found out that the Israelites were 'worshipping' it. He then destroyed it. See, God had used it;; but then it was of no more value. They should have done away with it; but they made it a god to themselves.

That is what the church world has done with the 'cross' they made it an idol. It is not to be cherished; Paul said to die this way was a curse.

Back to the Easter thing: The Word shows that Herod was the one keeping the pagan Easter; see if the J.W. 's had waited for God to show the truth, they would have seen that Easter has to be there. It was not the Christians hounoring Easter; it was Herod. If it were a mistranlation, and the Passover, there as they say, then they would have had this unGodly king honouring the Passover. But this is not the case; --no he was keeping the ungodly pagan day.

The cross is from idolarty; but Jesus died on a corss; for this was a curse. The Romans were full of idols; this is one reason this was their form of execution.

JO

[Jo Smith]

From: joie Sent: 1/31/2002 1:51 PM

Dear ZionsLion,

I cannot tell you personally that you should remove your 'cross' out of your life; but I can only tell you that for me, God has shown me that all such 'symbols' are idolarty. When King Hezekiah found the Israelites still burned incense to the brasen serpent which Moses had made, he brake it in pieces. (11Kings 18:4).

See, God had used this at the time to heal the people of snake bites. They should have done away with it after this. But, instead they kept it, maybe as you say, a 'memorial' or something to 'remind' them of what God had done for them. But, it became an idol to them.

God used the 'cross' for Jesus to die on; but that is no reason for us to 'cling' to any 'cross'. That was only pieces of wood. It had no spiritual value. It was only wood.

When Paul preached about the 'cross', he did not mean he was talking of and extoling that wooden cross; no! He was talking about the fact that Jesus died for us. I see, that if I use anything as a 'symbol' or a natural, material thing or pitcure to take my mind to Jesus, then this thing is an idol to me. It has to be the Spirit in my heart. It has to be the Word of God.

If I cherish a wooden peice of material (the cross) and think on that, or sing of it, or praise it, then my mind is on the wrong thing. I have made that thing an idol to myself.

God said not to make any image of anything in earth or heaven as an object of worship. If I use pitcures or images of the cross to take my mind to Jesus or God or worship, then I would be committing idolarty.

Even the so-called 'pitcures' of Jesus are idols. We have no true pitcure of Jesus. He never meant for us to have such things. Those pitcures are of Greecian gods. The main one is Zeus.

When God showed me this, many years ago, I got rid of the pitcure I had of suppossedly, Jesus and his disciples having the last supper; I tore all the pitcures out of my Bible; even off the front. I rid my home and life of all these idols.

The Catholic is bad about having images of a 'man?' on a cross; dead. To me, and I am sure to God, this STINKS. It is the worst of idolarty!!! They are trying to portray Jesus as still dead; as lifeless, as if they have beaten him. I just hate it. They are ugly, hideous, idols. They are full of Satan.

I believe all such things are the same. We worship God in Spirit and Truth; not with 'relics'.

Paul certainly did NOT go around praising and preaching about a wooden cross. Not so!! He was preaching the fact that Jesus died for our sins. That is HIS CROSS. NOT A PIECE OF WOOD.

I hope you can see this.

Jo

p.s.--Just a word of personal testimony: I always loved the song, The old rugged cross. I loved to play it and sing it. One day, riding down the road, that song was playing on the radio. I began to sing it too.

As God is my witness, (whom I shall face someday) I lie not, God spoke to me as plainly as I am telling you this, He said to me, don't sing that for that is idolarty.

I had never heard that before. He told me the church has made an idol of the cross. (the wooden cross; not the fact that Jesus died for us).

So, since then, He has opened my understanding to this matter. I never sing that song anymore; or any other song honouring that piece of wood. If that song comes into my mind, I always change it and say "I cherish my Jesus".

God bless you all.

[Jo Smith]

My Dear Spiritwalker,

I do so much admire and respect your love for Jesus and the Word!!!

Now, when the word tells you to take up your 'cross' and follow Him, DO YOU GO OUT AND PICK UP A WOODEN CROSS AND CARRY IT ON YOUR BACK? I think not.

Did he mean that? I think not. Then, what was he talking about? He was talking about whatever comes in our lives, which is unpleasant to our human nature; or which causes us to be suffer and be reproached for His Name sake. This, my dear, is what our cross is.

We are to deny ourselves--- is that not what He said? Deny ungodly lusts--- is that not what he said?

Live soberly, righteously, and Holy in this present world---- is that Scripture? Yes.

Did the apostles tote around a wooden cross on their backs? No.

Then, why dote on wooden or metal or diamond crosses? It is idolarty.

My Dear, go back and READ your precious message above---- there is what should always remind us and teach us and show us what our precious Jesus went through for us --- not someone wearing a piece of 'jewlery' called a 'cross' around their necks or elsewhere. Where is that preaching the Word? It is idolarty.

Jesus said preach the WORD. He did not say WEAR A CROSS PIECE. He did not say put wooden crosses up in church yards. It is idolarty. See, this is drawing attention to that piece of wood; not to Jesus.

Anything you use to 'remind' you or put into a 'frame' of worship, other than the Word,,, is idolarty.

It is those beautiful WORDS you quoted which gives us the understanding of how Jesus died----NOT SEEING THOSE UGLY IMAGES OF A DEAD MAN ON A CROSS!!! I tell, in the Name of the Lord, IT STINKS!!!

It takes the WORD THE WORD------ THE WORD----PLUS NOTHING - MINUS NOTHING.

The PREACHING of the CROSS is our salvation --- not the displaying of symbols of crosses.

Jo