Trinity, challenged

[Jo Smith]

Can you give a Scripture?

I have challenged Trinitarians over and over ---- WHY DO NONE OF YOU BRING FORTH EVEN ONE WORD OF SCRIPTURE PROVING THIS LYING DOCTRINE?
I would be afraid to keep believing a doctrine for which there is not one single word of Scripture. I am asking again, bring forth one verse stating this doctrine.

It just cannot be done -- yet I would venture to say 85% of the 'church' world believes this lie. The rest believe the Jesus only lie. why is this? No true revelation from the Holy Ghost.
1. They say Jesus is the 'second person' in the god-head. ......now I ask someone, any trinity believer to please give me one verse which says this. If you cannot, then maybe you better check up on what you rest your soul on.
2. They say the Father is the 'first person' in that god-head. Again please give me one verse saying this.
3. They say the HG is the 'third person' in the god-head. Scripture, Please?
4. They say these are all three co-equal beings, made up of the same substance. Verse, please?

They say these are all three men, for if they are the same substance and co-equal, then they must all be men or they must all three be spirit which? Give Scripture.
5. They say Jesus was just as much God as the other two >>> then how did he die? Can God die? Please give verse for this.

6. They say, God the Son. Please find the verse which uses this term.
Jesus had the HG inside himself. If the HG is a man just as Jesus is, and they are of equal substance, then HOW DID JESUS HAVE THE HG INSIDE HIMSELF?
Please explain with Scripture.

Jesus also said the Father was inside himself. Again if the Father is a man, same as Jesus, how was the Father inside Jesus? How are they inside us? ... If they are men. Also it says we have Jesus, the Father and the HG inside us..... now I ask you,, is this three co-equal beings inside me? Is it three men? Is it three Spirits? Which. If you say spirits, then this is denying that Jesus came in flesh. If you say men, then you must believe that three men are inside us. If you say one is a man, Jesus, and the other two are spirits, then they are not all three of the same substance. And also then Jesus a man has to be inside us. How is this possible? Think? Are you on solid ground?
Is this trouble making? NO-- I am trying to get you to truth. It is necessary for salvation to know and BELIEVE THE TRUTH.
The word said if you believe a lie you will be d**ned. Is trying to keep you from being d**ned trouble making and hate> No.
By saying Jesus is God, please explain how Mary gave birth to God.
So which is it --where they all three men? or are they all three spirit? if spirit, then how did man nail a spirit to the cross and kill him?
The HG was inside John before he was born. So if the HG is a man as was Jesus, how was he inside an unborn baby?

If he was not a man, how are he and Jesus of the same substance? How were they equal?
Is there any solid truth or Scripture supporting this teaching? Can any of you answer even one of the questions with Word?

If not, how long will you cling to a doctrine which you can not find one word of God to back it up? Have you no fear of believing something which is not written in God's word? Is this why so many of you are trying feverously to discredit the entire Word of God?
If any of you here are serious about having eternal life, you need to get into this study and find answers.
If you cannot prove any of this teaching with the Written word. There are some who say the spirit without the written word teaches them, then you tell us how it teaches you this is] -
but if you cannot prove this lie, and you belong to a church which teaches this, then I would say it is TIME FOR YOU TO CHECK UP ON YOUR CHURCH.....ARE YOU BEING LED ASTRAY BY A FALSE CHURCH? Sure sounds like it to me. If your church teaches this, then get some of them [pastor] or teacher, to give you the proof out of the Word then give it to me. If they cannot, better run for your eternal lives.

See, that word 'incarnation'? That is a devil word. It was used in connection with idol deities long before Jesus was born. That word is NOT EVER, NO NOT ONE TIME MENTIONED IN THE WORD OF GOD. SO IT IS A LIE.
God never at any time 'robbed' himself in human flesh. God never came to this earth as man. God never was inside a woman. God never at any time died on a cross. God never at anytime was seen by man. God never at anytime was born from a woman. God has never been human flesh.
His Word was not the Son, Jesus. Jesus was not the word. The Word was inside him. That is the flesh we eat, the message he brought us. His words were spirit and life.
His words were the Father's words. He said the Word I speak are NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHER'S WHO SENT ME.
Christ is the HEAD, OR AUTHORITY OVER MAN; BUT GOD IS THE HEAD OR AUTHORITY OVER Christ.

Jesus did not exist before Mary gave birth to him. This is not taught anywhere in the Book. The error of saying Jesus was the Word is what causes people to get this false notion. It is not taught in the Word.
The Word is God's thoughts expressed. That is God.
There is a difference in these two words; look at them:
LORD,,......and Lord.

See the difference? LORD refers to the Father. Lord refers to Jesus.
That is one reason so many people are confused. They know not this. So when they read about LORD,,,,,,, then Lord they think it is of the same being. But it is not.
Jesus Christ was set up on the throne of God by God himself and made to be our God. But only after his resurrection and ascension to Heaven. God is a many-membered Kingdom. Their 'oneness' refers to their unity, perfect love, and harmony. This is what they are trying to bring us to: perfect oneness with each other; perfect love; unity, agreement.
Paul said you are ALL ONE. Now get this.

As Christ is one body, yet many members, so is God. for Christ is the IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD.
So no one can explain God. He is a kingdom. Jesus is a human being. If you say God is a mortal man or ever has been a mortal man, go read Romans one. It comes from a reprobate mind.

all of you, listen to this truth.
the word 'incarnation' is NOT in the Word of God. Therefore it is a false teaching. It is throwing the entire truth off in your minds.
Jesus Christ was not eternal in the heavens. the Word 'beginning' in John 1:1 does not mean ETERNITY. gET THIS it does not mean the beginning of time known as eternity.
the Word plainly teaches that JESUS IS THE BEGINNING AND THE ENDING.
nOW DO YOU not know that Eternity had no beginning and it will never have an ending? Study the word. Get away from all these so-called scholars. They also were deceived and not in truth. If you believe their words, you are denying God's word.

I am telling you what the word says. It says Jesus is the beginning. It did not Jesus was IN THE BEGINNING. IT SAID JESUS IS THE BEGINNING.
Jesus ENDED THE OT. HE TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY. THEN HE BEGAN THE NT. He is the Beginning of the NT. That is all this means.

It said the Word was inside Jesus. The Word is God. God was INSIDE CHRIST. He is inside me. but not because I am God. Because he placed his spirit into me when he gave me the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Unless you have receive that baptism, you do NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD INSIDE YOU.

Now Jesus was the first BEGOTTEN FROM THE DEAD. This means that at his RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, HE BECAME THE FIRST SON OF GOD BEGOTTEN IN THE IMAGE {glorified] son of God.

This is when the word was made flesh; not when he was born.
He was not an eternal Son . This is no where taught in the Word. If you think it is , find me that verse.
God is not just [1] person or personality. but neither is he [3] persons or personalities. This is such false junk.
God is an innumerable host of HOLY BEINGS ALL UNITED IN ONE PERFECT HARMONOUS KINGDOM.
Now everything in the Word shows this. Everything in nature shows this. He said the invisible things of God are CLEARLY SEEN BEING UNDERSTOOD BY THE THINGS WHICH DO APPEAR.
That means everything you can see around you, shows the true nature of God. Everything you see around you is in plurality = innumerable. Is God any less? No!
Count the stars if you can ----- they show the true nature of God.

Count the grains of sand on the seashore if you can-----they show the true nature of God.
Count the kinds of insects if you can ----they show the true nature of God.
Count the invisible germs if you can...........etc.......see the picture?
Nothing in nature or the word shows God to be just [1] or [3] beings. This is junk of Satan.

By: Jo Smith

[Jo Smith]

Not one single Scripture says God is a trinity. No, not one. Now if it is not written, it is a lie. We cannot ADD to the Word and find any truth. It is true that God fills heaven and earth and all that there is..........BUT we can only know him by what He himself told us in His Word.

That is why to stay with the Written Word is the only safe way. It is the only way to know truth. If God did not say it, it is a lie.

God did not say Jesus is God. God did not say God is a trinity. Trinity is NOT ONE TIME IN THE WORD OF GOD. It is a lie made up by the Catholic church.

The only place where Jesus is said to be God is after His resurrection when God raised Jesus up to be God with the God kingdom BECAUSE OF HIS PERFECT LIFE OF OBEDIENCE.

Now if the earthly man Jesus had been God, then his perfect life would have meant not one thing. God had no temptation to sin. Jesus was tempted in all points as all of us humans are.

He overcame sin as a human being; not as a god.

Isaiah is speaking of a time AFTER GOD THE FATHER SET JESUS AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND AND TOLD US TO NOW WORSHIP HIS SON SAME AS HIM.

We now worship Jesus as our God. But this still does not mean that Jesus is or ever was GOD. it is just not true. Jesus did all that he did by FAITH IN GOD. Not as being God.

When Jesus said unless you believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Read that . He was saying unless you believe that I am the son of man. He was not saying I am God. Jesus NEVER ONE TIME SAID I AM GOD.

Paul never one time said Jesus is God. Peter never one time said Jesus is God. No one in the Word declared I believe Jesus is God.

If you can find one place show it to me.

It is just not there.

Jo

[Jo Smith]

To know the truth of who Jesus is, is of such importance, that I am doing another study on this subject. For, if you know this truth, it will prove all the other doctrines weather they are true or false. This proves the truth of the trinity and also the Jesus only doctrines.

In this study I am dwelling only on a few Scriptures which tell exactly what the people in the Scripture believed about who Jesus was. Of course, there are many more, but I picked out a few to show this matter. I offer a challenge to those who believe trinity to show even one Scripture which says that Jesus was the Second person in the Godhead; and that he was equal with the Father; of the same ‘substance’. And as I have said before, if it is not written in the Word of God, it is not correct; whose word are you believing?

In order to shorten this, I will not be quoting ; just telling briefly what each one says.

Matt.16:13-19---Jesus asked Peter whom do you say that I am. Peter says you are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Then Jesus says this revelation is the true foundation of the Church. So I say you must get this correct, to even start building your ‘house’ on the true Rock.

Notice, Peter did not say You are the Second Person in the Godhead. Nor did he say you are God. This is also in Mark 8:27-29.

John 6:14--here they said Jesus was that prophet that should come.

v69-----And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Here again, Peter makes the same confession of faith; not one word of Jesus being God; nor the Second person.

[Jo Smith]

John 11:27---Here Martha said I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God...-----See, she had gotten the same belief as Peter. Jesus did not correct her; he let this confession stand.

Acts 2:30---Here Peter preached that God had sworn with an oath to David that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, God would raise up Christ. So this proves that Jesus was of the flesh of David; therefore he was human.

v36 says that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ. It did not say God made him another person in the Godhead.

Acts 5:31---This says God exalted with his right hand Jesus to be a Prince and a Saviour. God made him that.

Romans 1:3, 4---Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; (see agreeing with what was said in Acts 2:32)

v4---And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Now, notice, it did not say he was declared to be God, nor a Second person.

Romans 8:3---says God sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to do what the law could not do.

1Cor.11:3---But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.

Now there is the Godhead explained: it is the order of authority. So this plainly states that God is in authority over Christ. So, how are they the very same?

That is borne out again in 1Cor.15:24, 28---Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

v28--And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

This shows the Son being subject to the Father for eternity; this is the headship; the Father is in authority over the Son. And yet, he gave his all the same power and authority as he himself has.

Gal. 4:4---...God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

This also calls Jesus God’s Son; not a second person nor God; it also shows that Jesus lived under the law; that is why He had to obey the law.

Phil.2:11--says every tongue should confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. This does not say we will all have to confess Jesus to be the second person of the Godhead.

Col. 1:13--- v12 says giving thanks to the Father.....v13---who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.

v15--says he is the IMAGE OF the invisible God; did not say he is the invisible God; nor the second person.

Heb.1:5---For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou are my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Heb.2:17---Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

How can you fit Jesus in as God or a second person in this verse? He is a high priest in things PERTAINING to God.

1John 1:3---....truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. Couldn’t be plainer; he made a distinction between the Father and His Son here.

1John 2:22---Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Now did this say if we deny that Jesus is a second person or that he is God? No!!! It says if we deny that he is the Christ; the very same revelation that Peter had; that all the rest had.

1John 3:8--says the Son of God was manifested..v23---says we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ....once again calling Jesus God’s Son; not God or a second person.

1John 4:9---This says God manifested his love toward us by sending his only begotten Son. It did not say that God himself came; said he sent his Son.

v10---says God sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. v12 says no man hath seen God at any time; but plenty of people saw Jesus.

v14---And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

v15---Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. See how important it is to confess that Jesus is the Son of God; now where did it say to confess that Jesus is God; where did it say confess that Jesus is the Second person in a Godhead? Maybe you should rethink what you are confessing.

1John 5:1--Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...

[Jo Smith]

1John 5:1--Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...

v5---Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Once again it said to believe that Jesus is the Son of God; now don’t you think that if we are to believe that Jesus is God; if we are to believe that Jesus is the second person that God could have and would have told us?

v10---He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself; he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

v11--And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

v12--He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13---These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

v20---And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Here it is speaking of God the Father.

Now, in all those verses it declares that our eternal life in in believing that Jesus is the Son of God. So, I think this is very serious. Those of you who believe that Jesus is God and those who believe he is the Second person in a Godhead, you should study this and see if you can find some Scripture saying what you say. If not, it could keep you from having eternal life. You must believe the truth to be saved; and the truth is that Jesus is the Son of God.

If this many Scriptures say the same thing, that Jesus is God’s Son; not God himself and not a second person; and you can’t find even one saying that he is God or a second person, then you obviously are not believing the record that God gave of his Son. To deny that record is to call God a liar. That is dangerous stuff.

Now for our last Scripture; Rev. 1: 5---And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. ...Now that is a lot of things describing who Jesus is, but not one word of his being God or a second person. I wonder why???

v13---And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man.... here he is called the Son of man in the midst of the churches.

So, where is he called God in the church or the second person??

Now, there you have a lot of Scripture declaring who Jesus is. I found not one that said he is God, nor that he is a second person in a Godhead. The only Scripture that refers to him as God is saying he is our God. That he is, but that is not saying he is God; only that he is our God; as Thomas said My Lord and My God. This does not mean that he is God; only that he is our God. God is his God. God is his Father. If one can’t see that from this many Scriptures, you just don’t believe the record that God gave of his Son.

If we are to believe that Jesus is God, that he is the second person in a godhead, that he is co-equal with another person in a godhead, then I ASK YOU, WHY DID NOT THE SCRIPTURE EVER IN ONE PLACE TELL US THAT?

Now when you can truly answer this, I will listen to you.

When you bring forth one Scripture saying Jesus is God, Jesus is a second person , or that God is a first person, or that the HG is a third person, or that there is a person in a godhead, then show it.

[Jo Smith]

1 Corinthians 8

8:6 - But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. ( from this we see there is one God, not God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Ghost. There is one God, the Father, and in addition, there is one Lord Jesus Christ.

John 17:3 - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. ( Now this is Jesus talking again he is saying there is only one God, the Father, and in addition, one Lord Jesus Christ sent by the Father.

Ephesians 4

4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

4:6 - One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. ( There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all. God the Father is above all

1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Luke 1:31- And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

1:32- He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: ( Now if God is “the Highest”, if words mean anything at all, how can Jesus be co-equal and co-eternal with God, if God is “the Highest” and Jesus Christ is “the Son” of the Highest. The Holy Ghost therefore is not a person; it is the power of “the Highest” who is God himself. Jesus was the son of David through Mary and he was Son of God because he was begotten of God by the power of the Holy Ghost.


1:35 - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. ( The Holy Ghost therefore is not a person; it is the power of “the Highest” who is God himself.


Now here is one everyone likes -

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ( Can you not see what this is saying? Now if Jesus was begotten, he had a beginning; and if he had a beginning, and he was begotten by God, he could not be co-eternal with the Father, neither could he be God, for God, we are told, has no beginning. In Galatians 4:4 we are told Christ was “made seed of a woman”. Romans 1:3 says Christ was “made of the seed of David and declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead”.

Hebrews 1:5- For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? ( According to the Scriptures, the Son of God was begotten at a definite point in time. “Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee”. So Jesus was not eternally begotten as the Trinity maintains. A being cannot be eternal and be begotten. So I submit that since Jesus came into existence and was born, begotten of the Father at a definite point in time, he cannot be the second person of the Trinity.

Hebrews 5:7- Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; ( (notice how Jesus prayed to God) unto Him(that is God) that was able to save him from death, and was heard, in that he feared”. So then Christ prayed to God to save him from death. Therefore Christ needed salvation.

Hebrews 5:8 - Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; ( Obedience to whom? Obedience to God. Christ learned obedience to God by what he suffered. There is no way that God can learn obedience to God Himself.

Hebrews 4:15 tells us that during that time he “was tempted in all points like as we are” and yet James 1:13 says that “God cannot be tempted with evil”. So if God can’t be tempted but Jesus was tempted, surely the conclusion is that Jesus was not God.

Nowhere in scripture do we read of God the Son or God the Holy Ghost. Nowhere do we read of Christ being co-equal or co-eternal.

[Jo Smith]

Did Jesus claim to be equal with God? No, he did not:

Now I will start with this thing in John 5:

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.





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Now really read this Scripture; what it truly says and not what mistaken people say it said.

The article Jack posted said that this was a man-made law of Sabbath. But it is just not true. I have not found man-made laws of Sabbath as the adventist people claim. Know why they say this? Because they themselves refuse to really 'keep' that seventh-day sabbath AS MOSES TOLD THEM TO DO.

I went back, studied the Scriptures on this. I wrote many good messages on the different things MOSES, not the Pharisees, said was God's laws of Sabbath keeping. I asked each of them to say how they keep it and what they think of such things as being stoned to death for PICKING UP STICKS ON THE SABBATH. Now that is the words of Moses; not some Pharisee.

Know what? None of them would ever answer me or deal with it. They KNOW they are NOT keeping it according to the Word of God, so they claim the Pharisses brought up mess that was not the Word. But the Pharisses did not exist back there then.

Look at verse 18-- the article Jack posted stated that Jesus was making himself equal with God. But now does the Scripture really say this? No, it DOES NOT!

The Jews ACCUSED Jesus of breaking their sabbath. That was THEIR thoughts. Then they also ACCUSED Jesus of making himself equal with God. But was Jesus doing either? What do you think? Was Jesus breaking the Sabbath?

They try to get out of this by saying it was a man-made law. But it was not. There is no Scripual proof of this.

Jesus knew the NT Sabbath was the ONE he belonged to, not the OT weekly sabbath. He said My Father WORKS on this day and I also WORK on this day. That is what angered those Jews. The audasity of him! Stating that His Father works on their Sabbath Day!

Jesus was in the process of changing the Sabbaths right here. He changed all the laws and brought in a new law, which the adventist people and most others still today do not know or accept. In Hebrews it clearly teaches that if the priesthood was changed, there also HAD TO BE A CHANGE IN THE LAW.

The book says that under the LEVITCAL priesthood, they received THAT OT LAW. But Jesus was not a Levite. So his priesthood cannot use that same law.

We are NOT under that law. At least the true Christians are not.

Now those same Pharisees CLAIMED that Jesus was making himself equal with God. But now did Jesus say that? No, of course not. Jesus NEVER AT ANY TIME CONSIDERED HIMSELF EQUAL with God; not in his lifetime.

God set him equal AFTER His resurrection. See verse 18 shows that it was the Jews thought that Jesus was making himself equal with God. Jesus had not said that.

But read verse 19----Jesus made it very CLEAR that he did NOT consider himself equal with God. He said 'I CAN DO NOTHING OF MYSELF. I only do what I see my Father do." Now how is this considering himself to be equal with God?

It is plainly showing that Jesus saw himself as lower than His Father and His God.



Jo