Church, under law

[isaiah]

From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22 (Original Message) Sent: 8/5/2006 9:32 PM
(I am very tired. I have been moving some of my messages to the special boards I set up for them. It has been a long time since I moved any and they are being 'lost' in the back pages, so that they will not be seen and studied. Now I was about to quit for now, but I found this one and looked at it. It is just too good on our present study of Law in the churches, for me not to go ahead and post it here. I do hope some of you will study this thread. It is so very good and enlightening.)
From: joie (Original Message) Sent: 9/1/2005 10:50 PM

I wrote a very long message on the fall of the OT. This shows from Lamentations how every phase or part of that old law nation was destroyed. This took place on the Day of Pentecost. This is when that fig tree was cursed and dried up with no fruit forever more. This was when they were left DESOLATE.

Jesus is the one who pronounced them desolate. He is the one who made them desolate. But in actuality it was that ‘law’ which made them desolate. Jesus was made under that law. So he came here as part of that law nation. He came here in ‘first man Adam flesh’. This is the vile body and must be done away with. It is synonymous with old Jerusalem or law. The Word says in Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

God sent his Son here in the likeness of sinful flesh. This is not the glory of God. This is not the ‘flesh’ that His Word was made into, for that flesh was glory. So here we link Jesus with first man Adam and old Jerusalem, law. This is important to understanding this message.

Another point which is needful to understanding this message is to know what the seven heads on that beast is. I have most certainly never heard the truth of this taught. God showed me that the first head of the beast, mankind, was Adam. Yes this head started in the Garden of Eden. It ended there at the flood.

Then the second head was Noah. The third head was those four who came up after Noah; his three sons and Abraham. This is the third kingdom which had four heads. Now this makes six heads of the beast of the OT. The last or fourth kingdom and seventh head was Moses (law).

So the Old Testament heaven and earth ended there at Calvary. This is where, when and how Jesus killed that old head with the sword. He nailed that law to his cross and took it out of the way. But that old head of law was revived and brought right back up. Why? Because old Jerusalem made a church and of course went right on in their idol worship and law.

They could never come into grace because of their idol worship. So they set about killing all the saints of God who followed Jesus. They also set back up their priest system. Hebrews tells us that God did away with that earthly priesthood and now we have the Heavenly priesthood of Jesus. But the church still keeps that priest system, of one man ruling over the church. Every church today follows this pattern and their tithe paying. So they are back under this old, destroyed head of law. This why they cannot ever hear, or understand the truth of God’s Word.

Then that same old Jerusalem, law nation of Jews, made an image to the first beast before them, which was the law of Moses and idol worship. So then, old Jerusalem is actually the ‘mother’ church and not the Catholic church. The Catholic church is just her first daughter. She then produced other daughters, or harlot churches. Seven of them to be exact. See those seven heads again? -- the image to that first beast.

By: Jo Smith

[isaiah]

From: Isaiah Sent: 9/2/2005 5:22 AM
Sure the law was abolished. Jesus did away with the law annd also those 10 commandments at calvary
Eph 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The law and those 10 commandments were blotted out on the cross...

Col 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

There is no justification under the law.
Acts 13:39 - And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
In the New Testament we are not under a commandment to keep the law.
Acts 15: 24 - Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Now we are under the commandment of love without the law.
Ro 3:21 - But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

We are not longer under the law. We are under grace.
Ro. 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

We have been delivered from the law.......
Ro. 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

If you are trying to serve God by the law, you are under the curse......
Gal. 3:10 - For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

The law is not of faith....

Gal. 3:12 - And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

We ahve been redeemed from the curse of the law by the blood of Jesus Christ....

3:13 - Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

What are you going to do with this commandment? Have you obeyed this one? I not why not?
Acts 12: 48 - And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

[isaiah]

From: joie Sent: 9/2/2005 12:14 PMNo, Jazzie, again the contradictions are in your own mind, for you have not the Spirit to rightly divide the Scriptures. You think that every time you read the word 'covenant' it is speaking of the ten command law of moses.
You think that every time you read the word 'law' it means this same law of moses.

Nothing could be further from the truth. You have lumped together Scriptures which pertain to several different covenants. Now I am going to take these just a few at a time, for I do not have time right now to sit here and do all of these. A few should show any sensible person that you have misunderstood the Word of God.
Now to 'hear' is to understand.......not listen to some hirelings words.

You cannot HEAR is your problem. You have no spiritual 'ear' to hear with.


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[isaiah]

From: joie Sent: 9/2/2005 12:22 PM
<NOBR>Ge 9:8</NOBR> And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,

<NOBR>Ge 9:9</NOBR> And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

<NOBR>Ge 9:10</NOBR> And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.\

<NOBR>Ge 9:11</NOBR> And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

<NOBR>Ge 9:12</NOBR> And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

<NOBR>Ge 9:13</NOBR> I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
<NOBR>Ge 9:14</NOBR> And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:

<NOBR>Ge 9:15</NOBR> And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

<NOBR>Ge 9:16</NOBR> And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

<NOBR>Ge 9:17</NOBR> And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

I suppose it would be too much to hope that you know there is a vast difference in the LAW COVENANT and the GRACE COVENANT?? Is there any hope you understand that these two are opposites........and it is not possible to be under both?

Now here is the everlasting covenant which God established with Noah:

<NOBR>Ge 6:8</NOBR> But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Now can you read? Noah found GRACE. He was not under any law covenant. that is the one and ONLY reason his family was spared that flood and destruction which struck the rest of that world. Why was the rest of that world destroyed? Because they went into LAW BONDAGE UNDER ADAM.

Adam took them into LAW, FOR HE PARTOOK of that tree of death = law.

By law he could RULE over the others AND BE PAID TO DO SO. This is not possible under GRACE,,,,WHICH IS LOVE = UNITY.

So this everlasting covenant God established with Noah was NOT THE SAME LAW COVENANT GIVEN TO MOSES.

[isaiah]

From: joie Sent: 9/2/2005 12:25 PM
Notice the Grace covenant was established with Noah and every living creature on earth.

It has no ten commandments anywhere connected with it. This is the EVERLASTING COVENANT......NOT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS GIVEN TO MOSES AND ONLY THE ISRAELITES.
[you are paying a man to teach you lies and destruction]

[isaiah]

From: joie Sent: 9/2/2005 12:38 PM
In Gen. 17 we are told that God established his everlasting covenant with ABRAHAM, ISSAC AND JACOB. [when it says his seed after him, it is speaking of the grace folks, not any natural seed.]

Now Paul told us that the law ten commandment covenant with moses was 400 years after this.
Do you think that Abraham and Issac were under that law? Of course not. they were in grace......and I am going to prove that this grace covanant established with Abraham, is the everlasting covenant.....not the ten commandment law.

See, the everlasting covenant was first established with Noah,,,,,,who had found GRACE.
Now it goes on with Abraham and his grace seed.

I know it would be too much to ask, but you who are interested in this truth, should study my message, Two nations in one.
It fully explains all of this.

There were some GRACE seed inside that rebellious nation of law Israelites. MOSES WAS ONE OF THEM. Moses was under GRACE, NOT LAW.

Moses was under the everlasting covenant of GRACE......but that nation was not.

[isaiah]

From: joie Sent: 9/2/2005 12:46 PM<NOBR>Heb 13:20</NOBR> Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

I can't believe that you equate the precious blood of Jesus Christ with covering that law covenant? Are you really this Scripturally illiterate? Surely not! If so, I warn you, RUN, FLEE, TAKE AN AIRPLANE, BUT GET AWAY FROM THAT PAID HIRELING OF YOURS.

Surely you must know that this same book of Hebrews very clearly said that the law covenant was only covered, or sanctified by the BLOOD OF ANIMALS?

Only the GRACE COVENANT, is the everlasting covenant, and the only one to be sanctified by the BLOOD OF JESUS.

That is why I warn you so much to get away from law.....it is under the blood of animals.....which is why God hates it and has never accepted it and never will.

That is why Adam brought in the animal sacrifices......he went into law, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

It is sad, but noah also reverted right back to this law covenant and the blood of animals soon after that flood, and God was highly displeased with him, and even thought of going ahead and finishing destroying the entire creation.........EXCEPT that he looked ahead to those of us who will live by PURE GRACE.....AND THE BLOOD OF JESUS.

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[isaiah]

From: joie Sent: 9/2/2005 12:55 PM
<NOBR>Isa 55:1</NOBR> Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
<NOBR>Isa 55:2</NOBR> Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
<NOBR>Isa 55:3</NOBR> Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Now this one is amazing to what we have been studying......see how it connects receiving the things of God without price and without money, with this everlasting covenant of MERCY.

Do you not know that there was NO MERCY under that law? Do you not know that Hebrews clearly teaches that they died WITHOUT MERCY under that law?

There is no such thing as MERCY under law.....for GRACE IS MERCY. Under law, if you break it you must be punished. If it is a capitol offense, such as adultery, then you must DIE without mercy. There is no such thing as FORGIVENESS UNDER THAT LAW.

Again I have proven that the EVERLASTING COVENANT IS THE GRACE COVENANT.

So see, there is NO contradition in the Word of God.

[isaiah]

From: joie Sent: 9/8/2005 8:31 PM

Now Jazz, you are surely missing something big somewhere. You mean you think God gave only 613 laws? And then he said oh, that's just too many, just keep these 10? Is that how you see God? Now who has the debil doctrine?

I will prove to you that the everlasting covenant had no ten commandments. I have already proven it but you are deaf and blind and cannot understand a thing spiritual.

<NOBR>Ge 9:8</NOBR> And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
<NOBR>Ge 9:9</NOBR> And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
<NOBR>Ge 9:10</NOBR> And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
<NOBR>Ge 9:11</NOBR> And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
<NOBR>Ge 9:12</NOBR> And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
<NOBR>Ge 9:13</NOBR> I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. (this is not the covenant with Israel. it is all earth)
<NOBR>Ge 9:14</NOBR> And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
<NOBR>Ge 9:15</NOBR> And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
<NOBR>Ge 9:16</NOBR> And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.(again, not Israel; everyone)
<NOBR>Ge 9:17</NOBR> And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.(now these 3 times establishes this truth; it is with everyone)
<NOBR>Ge 9:1</NOBR> And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
<NOBR>Ge 9:2</NOBR> And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
<NOBR>Ge 9:3</NOBR> Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
<NOBR>Ge 9:4</NOBR> But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Did you know that under the law covenant made with Israel and Moses, they were forbidden to eat many, many kinds of animals? Of course you do.

But see here in verse 3, they were told they could eat of every moving thing that lives. Now is that a contradiction or maybe two different covenants?

Don't you also know that Paul went back to this same thing explaining the Grace covenant? Sure you do. You are just willfully blind.

Under the law covenant with Moses the token was fleshly circumcision of the males. But under this covenant with Noah, the token is that rainbow.

Is that a contradictin or maybe two different covenants?

Verse 16 calls THIS the everlasting covenant. Maybe you just do not understand. This is NOT law. It is grace.